1.11 Major redstone changes?

[Matthew]

It has been brought to my attention that the 1.11 update snapshot includes a new redstone device known as an "observer" It's an "official" block update detector... it outputs a 1 tick pulse when a block is placed on the input side or when it gets a redstone signal. Oh and one more thing... IT'S INSTANT!!!! (still unknown is how much lag it causes) The Long know and feared "fetch bottleneck" is destroyed with this tech... a kilobyte of ram with these instead of repeaters means your read and writes depending on how fast your cell is could be like 2 ticks......... 2 ticks to address data from a kilo of ram?!?!.... liek holy shit with this multi core and general data dependent parallel circuits might actually be useful. I don't know the details myself, this post is just to make this aware and cause discussion. but guys... this changes everything... JOJO's Video on it

Could instant wire be a normal everyday thing... i guess we'll find out :3

[LambdaPI]

OMG SUCH WOW 1x1 PIXEL DISPLAYS WILL BE EVEN SMALLER

[Matthew]

OMG SUCH WOW 1x1 PIXEL DISPLAYS WILL BE EVEN SMALLER

LOL

[Nickster258]

... insert "back when redstone was good"
... insert "how bad is this performance wise knowing redstone is already shite"
... insert "I'm kind of interested but scared."

[LordDecapo]

Inb4 someone tries to make a near fully instant CPU and fails cause they don't know delay is important.
Idk what I would use this for except maybe bussing to and from RAM, decoders wouldn't work with this, but that's only 1 tick,.. so could speed memory up like op mentioned

[GISED_Link]

sounds gr8... nothing else to add.

Hope that the behaviour of this block will stay the same during time and versions...

[Matthew]

Inb4 someone tries to make a near fully instant CPU and fails cause they don't know delay is important.
Idk what I would use this for except maybe bussing to and from RAM, decoders wouldn't work with this, but that's only 1 tick,.. so could speed memory up like op mentioned

my thoughts exactly, also you can pull signals through some weird places with it. BTW this can be used as an inverter (as long as you time the input right)

[LambdaPI]

I have been experimenting with the observers, and I created a small memory cell.



You might notice the long string of observers. I found that if placed in that way, each one triggers the other and forms an instant chain. In this way, every other block can hold a memory cell, with instant read propagation.



I have not yet experimented with instant bussing for write, working on that right now. I'll keep you guys updated.

[LambdaPI]

Technically with correct timing you should be able to use the same method for write as for read.

[Chibill]

Very cool!

[tokumei]

Hey guys, let's make a bunch of instant logic on school and crash nickstar once and for all (nickstar.ftw.openredstone.org)

[LambdaPI]

that is a genius idea

[Magic :^)]

I can't wait to mess with this stuff. I'll probably wait until the ORE server gets updated with it though.

[LambdaPI]

We were a bit too hyped tho.

It will probably good for serial transmission if you figure out a way to smartly update the observer.

[Laythe]

We were a bit too hyped tho.

It will probably good for serial transmission if you figure out a way to smartly update the observer.

But Instant Vertical Infinite Diodes! And instant bussing in all 6 directions! And easy randomizers! And cool stuff!

[LambdaPI]

But its a pulse

[LambdaPI]

You're gonna waste more time converting it to a legit signal than just using a repeater

[Laythe]

You're gonna waste more time converting it to a legit signal than just using a repeater

No, because the detection is dual edge. So just plug it into a sticky piston with a redstone block on it. It'll toggle on when the input comes on, and will toggle off when the input turns off.

[LambdaPI]

I've tried to make a signal that is solid, but the only thing i'm coming up with is slower than just a normal repeater.

[LambdaPI]

Of course i'm not the best observer around.

This block name is trash
Redstone - Redstoner
Observer - Observer

trash

[Laythe]

Welp, Mojang just nuked practically every good thing about the observers, so I don't really care about 1.11 anymore.

[Nickster258]

Welp, Mojang just nuked practically every good thing about the observers, so I don't really care about 1.11 anymore.

What happened?

[LambdaPI]

Oh boy all the hype is gone.

[Laythe]

Welp, Mojang just nuked practically every good thing about the observers, so I don't really care about 1.11 anymore.

What happened?

Well, in snapshot 16w41a, Mojang changed a lot of stuff. Observers output a 1.5 tick pulse instead of a 0-tick pulse, which means they can't be used for t-flip-flops anymore and are thus useless for bussing. They no longer detect redstone updates a block away, which used to allow things like redstone junctions where two lines cross but don't interact. They output a signal strength of 15, which makes them laggy AF now. etc.

[Nickster258]

... so what is their use now? They were mainly for block update detection but that got nerfed. Is there any redeeming qualities about it now?

[Chibill]

Well they make good insta-wire

[Nickster258]

Well they make good insta-wire

Not according to the new update apparently. The 1.5 tick change nerfed that.

[LambdaPI]

Riiiiip

[PaukkuPalikka]

I'm pretty sure it's actually a 2 tick pulse, as it doesnt blockdrop pistons (1.5 tick pulses do, even in the snapshot, I tested it) and 2 comparators light up when you put it through a chain of them.
Also repeaters round down 1.5 tick to 1 tick, but the observer pulse stays the same.

EDIT:
If you add a comparator to the end like shown in the picture below, it will shorten the pulse to 1.5 tick and then you can use a piston as a T flip flop.

Also, the 1-block-away update detection wasn't completely removed, it will still detect redstone dust going on, off, or removed (but not placed, weird stuff)

Also, something very weird: The redstone lines are alternating on and off as shown in the picture at a rate what I think is 2 ticks off, 2 ticks on.

[Chibill]

Well they make good insta-wire

Not according to the new update apparently. The 1.5 tick change nerfed that.

Nope. Not according to Xisuma's snapshot vid.


They detect changes instantly and react instantly BUT they take 1.5 ticks to reset.

[Chibill]

Also there is a way to get pistons to drop blocks.

[Laythe]

Also there is a way to get pistons to drop blocks.

Gimme a two high two wide vertically and horizontally tileable t-flip-flop, please. Something that I may be able to use in a CLE I was hoping to make super fast using the observers.

Plus it's not even just the issue of block drop, they got nerfed in other ways too. The main source of dickatry on the part of Mojang besides the pulse length (and I did mean the length in my original post), is the removal of ethereal redstone update detection. I realize it's a bug, but so is quasiconnectivity.

Edit: Sorry if I came off a bit mad, it's just that the changes piss me off.

[tokumei]

Ohheyguys, just thought of something. This will be great for pulse generators that trigger on rising and falling edge.

[Chibill]

Yes and any insta-wire. As it updates instantly in both directions.

[Aerodynamic Brick]

yeah 1.11 looks cool

[Laythe]

Well, it looks like observers are no longer instant. gg Mojang, gg.

[LambdaPI]

They pretty much removed everything we were hyped for.

[Laythe]

At this rate, they are going to remove quasi-connectivity and make piston retraction not instant because they are "bugs".

[Chibill]

Still very nice. So much can be done with observers. We have small t-flip flops/.

[tokumei]

It's a good thing that observers aren't instant, from a server host perspective. Imagine the lag that could be caused.

[Apuly]

Plus it would be unrealistic to assume that mojang wouldn't remove the instantness of the block to begin with.

Stop believing hype and start thinking rationally, this shit already happened with comparators (I think).

[Chibill]

Compactors were at first 1-2 ticks (inconsistent) they fixed them to be onky 1 tick.

[Apuly]

close enough for me