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+--- Thread: 1.11 Major redstone changes? (/thread-11009.html)
1.11 Major redstone changes? - Matthew - 09-30-2016
It has been brought to my attention that the 1.11 update snapshot includes a new redstone device known as an "observer" It's an "official" block update detector... it outputs a 1 tick pulse when a block is placed on the input side or when it gets a redstone signal. Oh and one more thing... IT'S INSTANT!!!! (still unknown is how much lag it causes) The Long know and feared "fetch bottleneck" is destroyed with this tech... a kilobyte of ram with these instead of repeaters means your read and writes depending on how fast your cell is could be like 2 ticks......... 2 ticks to address data from a kilo of ram?!?!.... liek holy shit with this multi core and general data dependent parallel circuits might actually be useful. I don't know the details myself, this post is just to make this aware and cause discussion. but guys... this changes everything... JOJO's Video on it
Could instant wire be a normal everyday thing... i guess we'll find out :3
RE: 1.11 Major redstone changes? - LambdaPI - 09-30-2016
OMG SUCH WOW 1x1 PIXEL DISPLAYS WILL BE EVEN SMALLER
RE: 1.11 Major redstone changes? - Matthew - 09-30-2016
(09-30-2016, 05:30 AM)LambdaPI Wrote: OMG SUCH WOW 1x1 PIXEL DISPLAYS WILL BE EVEN SMALLER
LOL
RE: 1.11 Major redstone changes? - Nickster258 - 09-30-2016
... insert "back when redstone was good"
... insert "how bad is this performance wise knowing redstone is already shite"
... insert "I'm kind of interested but scared."
RE: 1.11 Major redstone changes? - LordDecapo - 09-30-2016
Inb4 someone tries to make a near fully instant CPU and fails cause they don't know delay is important.
Idk what I would use this for except maybe bussing to and from RAM, decoders wouldn't work with this, but that's only 1 tick,.. so could speed memory up like op mentioned
RE: 1.11 Major redstone changes? - GISED_Link - 09-30-2016
sounds gr8... nothing else to add.
Hope that the behaviour of this block will stay the same during time and versions...
RE: 1.11 Major redstone changes? - Matthew - 09-30-2016
(09-30-2016, 12:53 PM)LordDecapo Wrote: Inb4 someone tries to make a near fully instant CPU and fails cause they don't know delay is important.
Idk what I would use this for except maybe bussing to and from RAM, decoders wouldn't work with this, but that's only 1 tick,.. so could speed memory up like op mentioned
my thoughts exactly, also you can pull signals through some weird places with it. BTW this can be used as an inverter (as long as you time the input right)
RE: 1.11 Major redstone changes? - LambdaPI - 10-01-2016
I have been experimenting with the observers, and I created a small memory cell.
![[Image: SGlSgrj.png]](https://i.imgur.com/SGlSgrj.png)
You might notice the long string of observers. I found that if placed in that way, each one triggers the other and forms an instant chain. In this way, every other block can hold a memory cell, with instant read propagation.
![[Image: pOEAaiQ.png]](https://i.imgur.com/pOEAaiQ.png)
I have not yet experimented with instant bussing for write, working on that right now. I'll keep you guys updated.
RE: 1.11 Major redstone changes? - LambdaPI - 10-01-2016
Technically with correct timing you should be able to use the same method for write as for read.
RE: 1.11 Major redstone changes? - Chibill - 10-02-2016
Very cool!
RE: 1.11 Major redstone changes? - tokumei - 10-03-2016
Hey guys, let's make a bunch of instant logic on school and crash nickstar once and for all (nickstar.ftw.openredstone.org)
RE: 1.11 Major redstone changes? - LambdaPI - 10-03-2016
that is a genius idea
RE: 1.11 Major redstone changes? - Magic :^) - 10-04-2016
I can't wait to mess with this stuff. I'll probably wait until the ORE server gets updated with it though.
RE: 1.11 Major redstone changes? - LambdaPI - 10-04-2016
We were a bit too hyped tho.
It will probably good for serial transmission if you figure out a way to smartly update the observer.
RE: 1.11 Major redstone changes? - Laythe - 10-04-2016
(10-04-2016, 04:00 PM)LambdaPI Wrote: We were a bit too hyped tho.
It will probably good for serial transmission if you figure out a way to smartly update the observer.
But Instant Vertical Infinite Diodes! And instant bussing in all 6 directions! And easy randomizers! And cool stuff!
RE: 1.11 Major redstone changes? - LambdaPI - 10-04-2016
But its a pulse
RE: 1.11 Major redstone changes? - LambdaPI - 10-04-2016
You're gonna waste more time converting it to a legit signal than just using a repeater
RE: 1.11 Major redstone changes? - Laythe - 10-04-2016
(10-04-2016, 08:17 PM)LambdaPI Wrote: You're gonna waste more time converting it to a legit signal than just using a repeater
No, because the detection is dual edge. So just plug it into a sticky piston with a redstone block on it. It'll toggle on when the input comes on, and will toggle off when the input turns off.
RE: 1.11 Major redstone changes? - LambdaPI - 10-05-2016
I've tried to make a signal that is solid, but the only thing i'm coming up with is slower than just a normal repeater.
RE: 1.11 Major redstone changes? - LambdaPI - 10-05-2016
Of course i'm not the best observer around.
This block name is trash
Redstone - Redstoner
Observer - Observer
trash
RE: 1.11 Major redstone changes? - Laythe - 10-13-2016
Welp, Mojang just nuked practically every good thing about the observers, so I don't really care about 1.11 anymore.
RE: 1.11 Major redstone changes? - Nickster258 - 10-14-2016
(10-13-2016, 11:58 PM)Laythe Wrote: Welp, Mojang just nuked practically every good thing about the observers, so I don't really care about 1.11 anymore.
What happened?
RE: 1.11 Major redstone changes? - LambdaPI - 10-14-2016
Oh boy all the hype is gone.
RE: 1.11 Major redstone changes? - Laythe - 10-14-2016
(10-14-2016, 01:39 AM)Nickster258 Wrote:(10-13-2016, 11:58 PM)Laythe Wrote: Welp, Mojang just nuked practically every good thing about the observers, so I don't really care about 1.11 anymore.
What happened?
Well, in snapshot 16w41a, Mojang changed a lot of stuff. Observers output a 1.5 tick pulse instead of a 0-tick pulse, which means they can't be used for t-flip-flops anymore and are thus useless for bussing. They no longer detect redstone updates a block away, which used to allow things like redstone junctions where two lines cross but don't interact. They output a signal strength of 15, which makes them laggy AF now. etc.
RE: 1.11 Major redstone changes? - Nickster258 - 10-14-2016
... so what is their use now? They were mainly for block update detection but that got nerfed. Is there any redeeming qualities about it now?
RE: 1.11 Major redstone changes? - Chibill - 10-14-2016
Well they make good insta-wire
RE: 1.11 Major redstone changes? - Nickster258 - 10-14-2016
(10-14-2016, 06:58 PM)Chibill Wrote: Well they make good insta-wire
Not according to the new update apparently. The 1.5 tick change nerfed that.
RE: 1.11 Major redstone changes? - LambdaPI - 10-14-2016
Riiiiip
RE: 1.11 Major redstone changes? - PaukkuPalikka - 10-14-2016
I'm pretty sure it's actually a 2 tick pulse, as it doesnt blockdrop pistons (1.5 tick pulses do, even in the snapshot, I tested it) and 2 comparators light up when you put it through a chain of them.
Also repeaters round down 1.5 tick to 1 tick, but the observer pulse stays the same.
EDIT:
If you add a comparator to the end like shown in the picture below, it will shorten the pulse to 1.5 tick and then you can use a piston as a T flip flop.
![[Image: 2Du3ybX.png]](http://i.imgur.com/2Du3ybX.png)
Also, the 1-block-away update detection wasn't completely removed, it will still detect redstone dust going on, off, or removed (but not placed, weird stuff)
Also, something very weird: The redstone lines are alternating on and off as shown in the picture at a rate what I think is 2 ticks off, 2 ticks on.
![[Image: ciKFmtY.png]](http://i.imgur.com/ciKFmtY.png)
![[Image: RoE77HG.png]](http://i.imgur.com/RoE77HG.png)
RE: 1.11 Major redstone changes? - Chibill - 10-14-2016
(10-14-2016, 07:12 PM)Nickster258 Wrote:(10-14-2016, 06:58 PM)Chibill Wrote: Well they make good insta-wire
Not according to the new update apparently. The 1.5 tick change nerfed that.
Nope. Not according to Xisuma's snapshot vid.
They detect changes instantly and react instantly BUT they take 1.5 ticks to reset.
RE: 1.11 Major redstone changes? - Chibill - 10-14-2016
Also there is a way to get pistons to drop blocks.
RE: 1.11 Major redstone changes? - Laythe - 10-14-2016
(10-14-2016, 10:20 PM)Chibill Wrote: Also there is a way to get pistons to drop blocks.
Gimme a two high two wide vertically and horizontally tileable t-flip-flop, please. Something that I may be able to use in a CLE I was hoping to make super fast using the observers.
Plus it's not even just the issue of block drop, they got nerfed in other ways too. The main source of dickatry on the part of Mojang besides the pulse length (and I did mean the length in my original post), is the removal of ethereal redstone update detection. I realize it's a bug, but so is quasiconnectivity.
Edit: Sorry if I came off a bit mad, it's just that the changes piss me off.
RE: 1.11 Major redstone changes? - tokumei - 10-16-2016
Ohheyguys, just thought of something. This will be great for pulse generators that trigger on rising and falling edge.
RE: 1.11 Major redstone changes? - Chibill - 10-16-2016
Yes and any insta-wire. As it updates instantly in both directions.
RE: 1.11 Major redstone changes? - Aerodynamic Brick - 11-11-2016
yeah 1.11 looks cool
RE: 1.11 Major redstone changes? - Laythe - 11-13-2016
Well, it looks like observers are no longer instant. gg Mojang, gg.
RE: 1.11 Major redstone changes? - LambdaPI - 11-13-2016
They pretty much removed everything we were hyped for.
RE: 1.11 Major redstone changes? - Laythe - 11-13-2016
At this rate, they are going to remove quasi-connectivity and make piston retraction not instant because they are "bugs".
RE: 1.11 Major redstone changes? - Chibill - 11-13-2016
Still very nice. So much can be done with observers. We have small t-flip flops/.
RE: 1.11 Major redstone changes? - tokumei - 11-15-2016
It's a good thing that observers aren't instant, from a server host perspective. Imagine the lag that could be caused.
RE: 1.11 Major redstone changes? - Apuly - 11-15-2016
Plus it would be unrealistic to assume that mojang wouldn't remove the instantness of the block to begin with.
Stop believing hype and start thinking rationally, this shit already happened with comparators (I think).
RE: 1.11 Major redstone changes? - Chibill - 11-16-2016
Compactors were at first 1-2 ticks (inconsistent) they fixed them to be onky 1 tick.
RE: 1.11 Major redstone changes? - Apuly - 11-16-2016
close enough for me