introduction post

[martin of redwall]

hello all on this forum! (or atleast to those who are reading it). i love working with redstone and making awesome things with them.
i like to make complex and simple contraptions that improve surivial and make creative mode fun.

[PabloDons]

great to meet you martin! may I ask what got you into redstone in the first place and how you found this server? I love hearing peoples stories, really.

[martin of redwall]

i got into redstone when i was promted to do so by a friend. i didnt really like it at frist but then i got extremely good i was within a few weeks making logic gates before i even knew what that was. i built clocks and even and ALU before my showed me youtube videos and i was they there close even identical to the "redstone youtubers". i soon found my self making things that are just awesome. but i only have it for the xbox 360 so i cant really share unless others have it for the xbox and want to check it out. i found this server by googling "redstone forums". im stuck on something and was hoping to find a couple of xbox players that would help me. if your interested in what it is ill explain it. i really hope i do!

[Nuuppanaani]

Welcome Martin!

[martin of redwall]

well arent people on this forum nice! thanks for welcoming me. (most forums the senior staff dont say high to the newbies). and wow i messed up that reply.

[PabloDons]

well arent people on this forum nice! thanks for welcoming me. (most forums the senior staff dont say high to the newbies). and wow i messed up that reply.

lol it's nice to hear. I would love to help you, do you not have minecraft for desktop? in which case I would be able to help you online. otherwise it's fine. tell me what your problem is

[martin of redwall]

great to meet you martin! may I ask what got you into redstone in the first place and how you found this server? I love hearing peoples stories, really.

i dont really know much about the stuff im reading on this forum. i hope i can learn but without a computer i dont really know. i hope by directly replying to you i can get an anwser. also i really hope i can fit in on this forum because i got little help else where.

---

well arent people on this forum nice! thanks for welcoming me. (most forums the senior staff dont say high to the newbies). and wow i messed up that reply.

lol it's nice to hear. I would love to help you, do you not have minecraft for desktop? in which case I would be able to help you online. otherwise it's fine. tell me what your problem is

i dont have MC for the desktop sadly. but i can explain what im doing and my problem hope you can help. but frist do you have an understanding of comouter components like ram, prom and such? just so i know how to word things.

---

great to meet you martin! may I ask what got you into redstone in the first place and how you found this server? I love hearing peoples stories, really.

i dont really know much about the stuff im reading on this forum. i hope i can learn but without a computer i dont really know. i hope by directly replying to you i can get an anwser. also i really hope i can fit in on this forum because i got little help else where.

---

well arent people on this forum nice! thanks for welcoming me. (most forums the senior staff dont say high to the newbies). and wow i messed up that reply.

lol it's nice to hear. I would love to help you, do you not have minecraft for desktop? in which case I would be able to help you online. otherwise it's fine. tell me what your problem is

i dont have MC for the desktop sadly. but i can explain what im doing and my problem hope you can help. but frist do you have an understanding of comouter components like ram, prom and such? just so i know how to word things.

actually yu know what dumb question. based on the stuff ive read so far i sure you do know. so here it is.
im trying to make an A.I. "computer" with adaptive learning. ok so i have a small three input with 36 outputs based on the inputs given. it does work. in oder to explain i will break the system into five parts then explain their relationship. part one input: the three inputs are pressure plates they feed into a one wire bus this bus can be contined an infinite distance. at the end is a component that decodes which input was used. (the flaw here is that the incoming signal has to be a pulse not a hard signal.) part two: the "ALU" this is a parallel of 36 order sensitive two input and three input decoders with built in RAM which allows the decoder to remember the last input since it will need either two or three inputs to active its output. once the output is sent the decoder resets to zero. part three: the direct output: all decoder singals go on to the same one wire bus to a decoder then the proper output is sent. the outputs for now are lamps. part four: counters and EEPROM: counters will count the amount of time a particluar sequence is used i cunnently have it set to three times this is also a self resetting component once the counter reaches three it sends a pulsed signal to EEPROM where the infromation is stored for a later time. part 5: quick lookup table: is is a parrallel of AND gates inwhich the primary input and EEPROM inputs are sent.
relationship: the primary input is sent ao a one wire bus to a bus decoder that signal is sent to the decoders processing wires each input is bussed parrallel to the decoders to allow one main signal source. the primary signal is also sent to the quick lookup tables (covered later). once at the decoders to imformation is processed by either a three input or two input decoder if insuffienct data is avaiable the current data is stored in its internal RAM once enought information is vailable the decoder sends out a signal to a bus line where it is incoded for transmtion along the one wire bus. the bus decoder will activate to proper output. the decoder signal is also sent to a counter which will count the number of times it that event happened once it reaches three (but can be changed to count up to 576 or 1,151 if you dont want auto reset) the signal is sent to EEPROM which is a slightly modified T-flipflop this information is a hard signal to the quick look up table to its event AND gate this turns on half the needed data. the primary input is sent and if its event has happen 3 times a signal is send straight to the output taking 2.3 seconds of delay out of the response.
the A.I. is the fact it can track inputs and a decide a direction of travel. the adaptive part is where an event is stored after three detections to quiken its response.
ill let that sink in and anwser any questions before i tell you some problems ive had. but it does work.

[PabloDons]

im trying to make an A.I. "computer" with adaptive learning. ok so i have a small three input with 36 outputs based on the inputs given. it does work. in oder to explain i will break the system into five parts then explain their relationship. part one input: the three inputs are pressure plates they feed into a one wire bus this bus can be contined an infinite distance. at the end is a component that decodes which input was used. (the flaw here is that the incoming signal has to be a pulse not a hard signal.) part two: the "ALU" this is a parallel of 36 order sensitive two input and three input decoders with built in RAM which allows the decoder to remember the last input since it will need either two or three inputs to active its output. once the output is sent the decoder resets to zero. part three: the direct output: all decoder singals go on to the same one wire bus to a decoder then the proper output is sent. the outputs for now are lamps. part four: counters and EEPROM: counters will count the amount of time a particluar sequence is used i cunnently have it set to three times this is also a self resetting component once the counter reaches three it sends a pulsed signal to EEPROM where the infromation is stored for a later time. part 5: quick lookup table: is is a parrallel of AND gates inwhich the primary input and EEPROM inputs are sent.
relationship: the primary input is sent ao a one wire bus to a bus decoder that signal is sent to the decoders processing wires each input is bussed parrallel to the decoders to allow one main signal source. the primary signal is also sent to the quick lookup tables (covered later). once at the decoders to imformation is processed by either a three input or two input decoder if insuffienct data is avaiable the current data is stored in its internal RAM once enought information is vailable the decoder sends out a signal to a bus line where it is incoded for transmtion along the one wire bus. the bus decoder will activate to proper output. the decoder signal is also sent to a counter which will count the number of times it that event happened once it reaches three (but can be changed to count up to 576 or 1,151 if you dont want auto reset) the signal is sent to EEPROM which is a slightly modified T-flipflop this information is a hard signal to the quick look up table to its event AND gate this turns on half the needed data. the primary input is sent and if its event has happen 3 times a signal is send straight to the output taking 2.3 seconds of delay out of the response.
the A.I. is the fact it can track inputs and a decide a direction of travel. the adaptive part is where an event is stored after three detections to quiken its response.
ill let that sink in and anwser any questions before i tell you some problems ive had. but it does work.

woah A.I with adaptive learning :O.
I'm gonna need a simplification, I can only take in so much at a time. Is it a machine that takes inputs, based on the inputs decides a destination and if the same input is sent 3 times it quickens it's response? I was not able to quite understand how it works, but I think I can figure it out if you explain the problem

[martin of redwall]

im trying to make an A.I. "computer" with adaptive learning. ok so i have a small three input with 36 outputs based on the inputs given. it does work. in oder to explain i will break the system into five parts then explain their relationship. part one input: the three inputs are pressure plates they feed into a one wire bus this bus can be contined an infinite distance. at the end is a component that decodes which input was used. (the flaw here is that the incoming signal has to be a pulse not a hard signal.) part two: the "ALU" this is a parallel of 36 order sensitive two input and three input decoders with built in RAM which allows the decoder to remember the last input since it will need either two or three inputs to active its output. once the output is sent the decoder resets to zero. part three: the direct output: all decoder singals go on to the same one wire bus to a decoder then the proper output is sent. the outputs for now are lamps. part four: counters and EEPROM: counters will count the amount of time a particluar sequence is used i cunnently have it set to three times this is also a self resetting component once the counter reaches three it sends a pulsed signal to EEPROM where the infromation is stored for a later time. part 5: quick lookup table: is is a parrallel of AND gates inwhich the primary input and EEPROM inputs are sent.
relationship: the primary input is sent ao a one wire bus to a bus decoder that signal is sent to the decoders processing wires each input is bussed parrallel to the decoders to allow one main signal source. the primary signal is also sent to the quick lookup tables (covered later). once at the decoders to imformation is processed by either a three input or two input decoder if insuffienct data is avaiable the current data is stored in its internal RAM once enought information is vailable the decoder sends out a signal to a bus line where it is incoded for transmtion along the one wire bus. the bus decoder will activate to proper output. the decoder signal is also sent to a counter which will count the number of times it that event happened once it reaches three (but can be changed to count up to 576 or 1,151 if you dont want auto reset) the signal is sent to EEPROM which is a slightly modified T-flipflop this information is a hard signal to the quick look up table to its event AND gate this turns on half the needed data. the primary input is sent and if its event has happen 3 times a signal is send straight to the output taking 2.3 seconds of delay out of the response.
the A.I. is the fact it can track inputs and a decide a direction of travel. the adaptive part is where an event is stored after three detections to quiken its response.
ill let that sink in and anwser any questions before i tell you some problems ive had. but it does work.

woah A.I with adaptive learning :O.
I'm gonna need a simplification, I can only take in so much at a time. Is it a machine that takes inputs, based on the inputs decides a destination and if the same input is sent 3 times it quickens it's response? I was not able to quite understand how it works, but I think I can figure it out if you explain the problem

ok here is an attatchment of a diagram of my system i hope it worked. im just going to send it now. i can make a way more detailed diagram if you need it i mean way more. but i made this before i started it as a template

[greatgamer34]

Welcome to ORE... Home of the..... welcome!

[greatgamer34]

BTW everyone here is well educated in computer science/engineering, if you need any help just post your question on the forum. You should invest in MC for the desktop so you can join our server!

[PabloDons]

Alright I think I got the hang of that machine, wanna explain your problem?

[martin of redwall]

ok here is my problem
my "decoders" are huge 10 wide 7 deep and 6 tall and they are not stackable. they work by using
t flip flops in series that hold the next one on till the pervious one it turned on. this makes it so a certain permutation is required. im using a three input system. there are 12 permutaions therefor i need 12 decoders. i want a 90 input system that would require 117480 decoders that just for the permutations of combining three of each input out of 90. then i would need decoders for two inputs thats another 4005 decoders and well even thats way to much. its important i use the permutations because if someone steps on a pressure plate then another the machine (as you seem to call it) needs to know which direction. so input 1 then input 2 or was it input 2 then input 1. so the permutatutions are (1,2) or (2,1) i need a smaller component that can detect which permutation was used. my decoders can only detect one so i need a decoder for each permutation.
even a 5 input system would reqiure 80 decoders. and im currently designing it but some decoders will be in unloaded chucks. (redstone repeats and compartators dont freeze in unloaded chucks like on pc unless thats been fixed) but if i do get MC for PC ill want to transfer the machine.
problem two: i just dont feel like its quite right. i mean my design is simple i was wondering what could be added to make it more complex and adaptive. i made a very efficient timer wanted to use it to deteremine speed of the intruder. but that would require a seperate module to interpert that data. and i have yet to come up with any solution.
notes: on the 90 input system these will be the inputs sunload detector, rain detector (got design form youtube), trip wire, pressure plates, blast detection (can show diagram), and a few proximity sensors.
outputs: note block and lamps for indication of intruders and where they are, pistions to seal door ways, tnt (for outside detections), despensers, and fall traps. as well as any suggetions.
basically the problem is size. also i dont really know a lot of computer science lingo so try to either explain or hyperlink the term to a website that explains it. (or i can just google it) i also feel that telling you how i work out redstone would be helpful.
i see redstone as this: if i want something on it will need a signal, and if i want a order i have to find the correct pattern of on/off weather they are in parrallel, series. or series parallel. i just tell myself what i want and formulate a input system, then a curciut or compnent that allows my output control the way i need it. (hope that makes since). and tahnks for your help.

[PabloDons]

So in really short u want a decoder to detect what order a pair of pressure plates where pressed? (If its 1 then 2 or 2 then 1) but you need it to be small because you have 90 inputs and detecting each pattern is like (90!) Decoders. am I correct? In which case I'll see what I can do and try build one that is stackable and don't need 100 million other decoders, hopefully some other members might help out as well

[martin of redwall]

So in really short u want a decoder to detect what order a pair of pressure plates where pressed? (If its 1 then 2 or 2 then 1) but you need it to be small because you have 90 inputs and detecting each pattern is like (90!) Decoders. am I correct? In which case I'll see what I can do and try build one that is stackable and don't need 100 million other decoders, hopefully some other members might help out as well

---

That's very close, ill just clarify. i only need the permutations of combining three or two inputs together of the available 90 so for instance: (1,2,3) (37,41,23) and two inputs (1,2) (34,65) or expressed as (x,x) (x,x,x) X can be any number from 1 to 90 in any order. e.g. (1,2,3) (3,2,1) (2,1,3) and so on for all possible permutations within this expression.

[Magic :^)]

In this case, couldn't you encode the inputs as 7-bit numbers? (90 would fit in a 7-bit value)
You could then connect the 2-3 7-bit numbers together as a 21-bit unique value which represents the input state.
you could encode the inputs from the values 0000001 to 1011010 (1 to 90)
and you could treat no input as value 0000000

Then you can create codes like this, treated as 21 bit values:

2, 4, 90: 1011010 0000100 0000010

6, 32: 0000000 0100000 0000110

note that the numbers are pushed in from the right, so that in a 2-input combination it will be nice and neat with the leading zeroes

[martin of redwall]

In this case, couldn't you encode the inputs as 7-bit numbers? (90 would fit in a 7-bit value)
You could then connect the 2-3 7-bit numbers together as a 21-bit unique value which represents the input state.
you could encode the inputs from the values 0000001 to 1011010 (1 to 90)
and you could treat no input as value 0000000

Then you can create codes like this, treated as 21 bit values:

2, 4, 90: 1011010 0000100 0000010

6, 32: 0000000 0100000 0000110

note that the numbers are pushed in from the right, so that in a 2-input combination it will be nice and neat with the leading zeroes

i tried to find a way to turn binary into output but have no idea programming and binary/hexadecimal is out of my ability as i don't have any training or schooling in this area. i only have a very high education in electrical and electronic diagnostic on automotive and diesel engines. (which now a days is pretty complex) if you have a youtube video or diagram i could fallow to get an idea of how to do it that would be great. i know logic gates and simple computer components. any help is welcome thanks

[PabloDons]

binary is pretty simple. in really really short it is counting with just 1's and 0's.
in school you have probably learned that there are 10 different symbols: 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9.
let's say we have 4 bits: 0000. this is, as you might have guessed, 0.
counting up one we get 0001. as you might have already known from basic counting in school, zeros to the left of the number means nothing and can be removed to simplify. but in a computer you cannot remove them so we keep them.
now usually what comes next is a 2, but we only have 0's and 1's. Now what comes after a 9? 10!
counting up again we get 0010. we have only counted twice so that is a 2 in binary.
then so on and so forth.
the first bit is the one that has the smallest value, or in other words, the least significant bit.
that bit has the value 1 in our case. now going up the next bit has the value 2 or in binary a 10. the next has the value 4 or in binary 100. you can calculate the bit value with the formula 2^n where n is the bit number.

the reason people use binary instead of decimal is because redstone wire has 2 states: on or off (or with other words 1 or 0). you can use hexadecimal (base 16) because signal strength can have 16 different values. but that is using comparators

[martin of redwall]

binary is pretty simple. in really really short it is counting with just 1's and 0's.
in school you have probably learned that there are 10 different symbols: 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9.
let's say we have 4 bits: 0000. this is, as you might have guessed, 0.
counting up one we get 0001. as you might have already known from basic counting in school, zeros to the left of the number means nothing and can be removed to simplify. but in a computer you cannot remove them so we keep them.
now usually what comes next is a 2, but we only have 0's and 1's. Now what comes after a 9? 10!
counting up again we get 0010. we have only counted twice so that is a 2 in binary.
then so on and so forth.
the first bit is the one that has the smallest value, or in other words, the least significant bit.
that bit has the value 1 in our case. now going up the next bit has the value 2 or in binary a 10. the next has the value 4 or in binary 100. you can calculate the bit value with the formula 2^n where n is the bit number.

the reason people use binary instead of decimal is because redstone wire has 2 states: on or off (or with other words 1 or 0). you can use hexadecimal (base 16) because signal strength can have 16 different values. but that is using comparators

i know about that part its just the part about how to turn it into a output i tired logic gates like in a computer processor but they have millions even billions of transistors

[Legofreak]

i know about that part its just the part about how to turn it into a output i tired logic gates like in a computer processor but they have millions even billions of transistors

millions and billions isnt a requirement though. you can usually get the job done(even if slowly) with much less; tens or hundreds of logic gates.

[martin of redwall]

i know about that part its just the part about how to turn it into a output i tired logic gates like in a computer processor but they have millions even billions of transistors

millions and billions isnt a requirement though. you can usually get the job done(even if slowly) with much less; tens or hundreds of logic gates.

well true but if you have been fallowing my issue i have a 90 input sytem that reqiures a factorial of 90 in a grouping of three and two (x.x.x) (x.x.) permutatuions thats a lot of gates and still doesnt help in me in a binary to output converter. I was thinking if i could modify a gpu since that takes a binarty input and controls pixels but instead would just be the output. or would that take up loads of space as well?

[Magic :^)]

In regards to what I suggested before:

encoding the digits is just a matter of busing the pressure plate signal into an array of repeaters where the repeaters are only placed where you want a 1.
You would have to place all that stuff by hand for every combination

then the output would have to be D-latched.

you should have 3 arrays of D-latches, with one set feeding into the next in parallel.
(use repeater locks btw, I'm assuming xbox mc has those)

when you step on a pressure plate, there should be a pulse that triggers ALL d latches at the same time that the input reaches the first array.
This will save the input, and propagate any previous input forwards.

Hope that helped?

[martin of redwall]

In regards to what I suggested before:

encoding the digits is just a matter of busing the pressure plate signal into an array of repeaters where the repeaters are only placed where you want a 1.
You would have to place all that stuff by hand for every combination

then the output would have to be D-latched.

you should have 3 arrays of D-latches, with one set feeding into the next in parallel.
(use repeater locks btw, I'm assuming xbox mc has those)

when you step on a pressure plate, there should be a pulse that triggers ALL d latches at the same time that the input reaches the first array.
This will save the input, and propagate any previous input forwards.



Hope that helped?

well thats nice and all but i dont know how to make one.. plus there will be 117,000 outputs so i would need a lot of those arrays. that machine describe is my base test model. i want a 90 input system. i would need a component that can detect multiple permutations. right now my component can only decode one permutation. if additional information is needed let me know ive been working on this for 3 weeks and my smallest component is 8x7x6 and only decodes one permutation. so really any help is going to be awesome. weather its a video diagram or idea that i can understand and figure out. im smart so all i would need is a diagram. i can figure out how it works. it really sucks i dont have MC for pc becuse you guys are the first to try and help me. 3 forums and i found help so im very grateful for your help. thanks.

[Legofreak]

May I ask what this AI will be used for? like a game or something?


would you like to play global thermonuclear war?

[martin of redwall]

it will be used to track a multitude of inputs and compare them to give an output. i will be using it however for an automated defense system. it will work by tracking the movements of the intruders. example: if someone steps on a pressure plate thats input one, two inputs will be required to deteremine direction (the reason i need to use permutations) if i have two inputs labeled one and two one being on the left and two being on the right. in order to deteremine direction if one is tripped then two (1,2) the person is moving right then the opposite (2,1) they are moving left. if three inputs are used position can be triangulated. thats what is going to be used for for now. but once i refine it (with some help) i want to create smart games like player vs computer chess or a interactive adventure map (like a video game). and if i can manage to make a programmable one i can (when i get MC for pc) share it with other so they can create their own ideas. the biggest idea i had was: i can use it to control survival map to keep certain areas controlled like farming, lights, spawners, traps, doors, secert areas, and automated defence. (but that will be a pc server project) but the limits with it are endless. i just need the permtutaion decoders smaller inorder to be compact for particle use. that was a little winded.

[Magic :^)]

This whole thing sounds pretty interesting. I hope you realise that there will be a looong response time because of all of the encoding, decoding, and signal extension :O

(It's redstone, waiting a (long) while comes with the territory xD)

To be honest, I think you shouldn't start this until you have MC for PC. I don't think xbox minecraft has anything similar to WorldEdit. You NEED WorldEdit for this kind of stuff!

Trust me, it will save a lot of headache and hassle if you have the ability to //undo, //copy, //paste, and //stack stuff ^^

[LordDecapo]

i got into redstone when i was promted to do so by a friend. i didnt really like it at frist but then i got extremely good i was within a few weeks making logic gates before i even knew what that was. i built clocks and even and ALU before my showed me youtube videos and i was they there close even identical to the "redstone youtubers". i soon found my self making things that are just awesome. but i only have it for the xbox 360 so i cant really share unless others have it for the xbox and want to check it out. i found this server by googling "redstone forums". im stuck on something and was hoping to find a couple of xbox players that would help me. if your interested in what it is ill explain it. i really hope i do!

Add me on Xbox live, I wanna see your stuff
GT: LordDecapo

[LordDecapo]

Umm, you definitely need to add me on xbox, I started Redstone on the 360, and build some of the more advanced CPU architectures on this server (with the help of many OFC, gotta love the team work of ORE).
and I believe I figured a way to do this much smaller and faster.
you can incorporate the AI system into the "game board inputs" it self, and just have it out put the last known movement direction and position etc to the main logic controler.
I get off work at 4pm EST all this week, so add me and I'll hope on and try and give you a hand.

[martin of redwall]

Umm, you definitely need to add me on xbox, I started Redstone on the 360, and build some of the more advanced CPU architectures on this server (with the help of many OFC, gotta love the team work of ORE).
and I believe I figured a way to do this much smaller and faster.
you can incorporate the AI system into the "game board inputs" it self, and just have it out put the last known movement direction and position etc to the main logic controler.
I get off work at 4pm EST all this week, so add me and I'll hope on and try and give you a hand.

hope i didnt wait too long for you. i have been havinf internet issues of which where just fixed today. very glad to see someone who does redstone on MC!!

[LordDecapo]

Not at all just add me on Xbox live (same name) and let me know your gamer tag so I can add you back (I hate the new adding system)
I am mainly am on Netflix xD while playing on this server lol. Just message or add me and as long as I'm not zoned out I'll join u lol

[martin of redwall]

Not at all just add me on Xbox live (same name) and let me know your gamer tag so I can add you back (I hate the new adding system)
I am mainly am on Netflix xD while playing on this server lol. Just message or add me and as long as I'm not zoned out I'll join u lol

i already sent you a request yesterday its ramen king 2012 ill cancel it and resend.