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ORE GOVERNMENT - PNWMan - 08-06-2014
Let's face it: ORE is in trouble. I think we all can admit that it is sloppily run and is quite doomed to fail in the far future if the current way of running things continues. By this, I mean that the active staff force is extremely small, such that only 1 or 2 people do anything (thanks tyler!). Also, some key aspects could be improved drastically, and some aspects are so terrible (like school running out of plots or the giant backup of visitors) that ORE is doomed, in a way, currently. It is sloppily run as there are hardly enough staff to handle it all, and even though the hard work those few staff put in helps greatly, it's just too much for them with having to code, accept visitor apps, help visitors, do trials... etc. The staff force is much to small and key aspects are either faulty or inefficient, thus causing the imminent doom of ORE in the distant future.
These problems are due to the way the ORE government is set up. Many threads, posts, and replies have been made to address this issue, and I felt it needed to be combined into one thread: This one. This thread combines the ideas of many people (some subjects go with what the majority of people favor), as well as some of my own ideas. I will have a chart that lists the changes that need to be made in order for ORE to succeed, as well as the pros and cons for each change. I may add/change/remove these changes.
Change #1: Combine build and school with the same physical map, possibly with a new host if lag issues arise.
Pros: Combined physical worlds allows for greater student success. The need to switch back and forth between servers is eliminated. The application and rank transfer processes become much easier, smoother, and more efficient. Physical combined worlds has less lag than multiverse.
Cons: Combining worlds may increase lag by a slight amount, and builders may be more annoyed by students. A world with physical combined student and builder plots may be difficult to create, and students/visitors may be able to annoy builders. However, annoyance can be reduced greatly by different chats and slightly stricter enforcement of rules.
Change #2: Have 4 separate chats, of which you can be in multiple: Build, Combined, School, and multiple Lessons chat. Visitors, guests, and students can only join Combined, School, and Lessons chat, while anyone else can join any chat. For the lessons, you create your own chat room of which you teach the audience, and remove the chat room when finished. Depending on the amount of people on school, add or not add the Lessons chat.
Pros: Quiet builders can have privacy, but other builders can join either chat if they wish. School and build are now combined permanently by combined chat, and quiet students can be to themselves. Build and school are more interconnected, but in a way such that most everyone is happy. Lessons do not annoy other people.
Cons: The amount of builders/teachers willing to help students might decrease a small amount, but this can be mitigated by making teaching more enjoyable. Lessons chat might be confusing, but making a simple program (or just not making it, depending on population size) will help.
Change #3: Add the [Foreman] rank as a staff assistant, and choose qualified people.
Pros: Applications, trials, and limited ranks will be reviewed/done/changed much quicker and more frequently.
Cons: Adding a rank divides the community up ever so slightly more, but this is no large issue. Also, this rank was removed in the past due to abuse, however, abuse can be reduced by choosing qualified people.
Change #4: Have a large lesson database on the forums. Make sure the bulk of the lessons is text and pictures, with maybe a video as a supplement.
Pros: These lessons will be available to students when teachers/builders are not, and can increase accurate learning and student productivity rates, as well as decrease the amount of time someone is a student. Confusing subjects can be clarified without the need of a person. Text and pictures can be edited and improved.
Cons: Teachers/builders may direct students to these lessons instead of teaching, which may make these lessons the new "school." However, making teaching more enjoyable will help to reduce the amount of redirects to the lessons. Also, it may be difficult to have such a large database, but with enough people on the project, it is possible.
Change #5: Have the infamous "signs at spawn" be kept at spawn, as well as in a written book (that visitors are able to pick up (visitors picking up items is not a major issue at all)).
Pros: Visitors can refer to the book whenever they need help, and it's something they can carry with them. They wouldn't have to annoy other people asking what to do.
Cons: It may be hard to implement, but good coding will help this. Also, a combined spawn may help.
Change #6: Have plots be reset with a new added command ONLY for use by staff, then unclaimed after a user has been offline for more than six months AND the user has been online a total amount of 10 hours or less. Use a python program to detect old plots and total time online.
Pros: New plots open up, and old junk can be removed.
Cons: The player offline time log has been reset in the recent outage, so it may not take effect until about 6 months from now (assuming there isn't another outage, and that the log isn't still intact). Plus, deleting another persons plot may have some small controversy. However, there are plenty of build plots, and combining school will open up new ones, so everything should be fine 6 months from now, and as far as controversy goes, if you haven't been on for 6 months and have only been on a total of 10 hours, you probably won't care about your stuff.
Change #7: Host more mass lessons instead of small, short, 1-2 person audience lessons.
Pros: These mass lessons will increase teacher confidence, the feeling that teaching is worthwhile, and will help students learn much more in a shorter amount of time. Teaching 1-2 students at a time is time consuming and it doesn't feel worthwhile, thus teaching stops. Mass lessons are the key for teaching to continue. The online tutorial database
Cons: Large lessons may be hard for some teachers to teach, and large audiences can be hard to control. However, these can be mostly fixed by having more qualified teachers and stricter enforcement of rules. While mass lessons are not as personalized, by teaching high quality material the amount of confusion can be reduced, thus reducing how much attention individuals need.
Change #8: Have a stricter enforcement of the rules, and harsher punishment, however, not so strict that ORE becomes boring or seemingly "run by parents."
Pros: This will greatly reduce the amount of spam and malevolent nonsense that comes with greater popularity, and will allow mass lessons to be successful. This will rid ORE of undesirable people.
Cons: The freedom of ORE may be slightly jeopardized, and some may leave as they view it as boring and strict. These issues can be helped by only issuing punishment when offenses are made, and by limiting the strictness (possibly with more influence on students. This gives them something to look forward to (more freedom with builder rank) and filters out undesirable people right at the start).
Change #9: Have better advertising campaigns on multiple websites using multiple ways, without seeming annoying and stupid.
Pros: In order for mass lessons and teaching to feel worthwhile and valuable, the school has to have a large community. Plus, it increases computational redstone awareness within the Minecraft community.
Cons: Increasing popularity means more visitors and students, which could mean trouble and annoyance. But using some of the changes above, annoyance can be reduced, and smoothness can be increased.
Change #10: Turn the [Member] rank to [Builder].
Pros: School and build will have much more integrated ranks, as having two ranks for the same thing is redundant. Also, [Builder] more accurately represents the privileges than simply [Member]
Cons: Changing the long lived [Member] rank may be hard for some people, but people can get used to change after a bit. Some may feel it makes them "part of the crowd," but it is not your rank that determines that, it is your personality.
Change #11: No matter what method of combining build and school is employed, have a shared spawn with boards and guide book that take into account someone may join either school or build (not biased to them joining just one).
Pros: This makes the application process much easier, and reduces the amount of double applications (one app for build, then one for school, or vise versa).
Cons: The amount of information on the boards and in the book will increase and possibly overwhelm the visitor, but this can be mitigated by dividing it up into sections (with a presection that directs the visitor to either one based on a prompted personal examination of redstone skills/abilities).
Change #12: Give teachers/builders full permissions on the school.
Pros: Teachers will be able to help students without asking for permission, and they can help with projects on people's plots even if it is not their plot.
Cons: More permissions could result in grief, but since they are given full trust on build, they should be on school as well. Slightly stricter enforcement of the rules can reduce builder/teacher grief.[/color]
Change #13: Have a trial plot area where students can build their trial build. Once they claim the plot, they are given the rank [Testificate]. Other students/visitors are not allowed to build on the plot. They are timed for an hour (if they leave in the middle it does not count that time) and after the hour has passed, they cannot build on that plot anymore. They can only start/continue the trial while staff, foreman, and possibly teachers and builders (since they have World Edit) are online. Then, they can ask staff at a later time to judge/question it, and afterwards the plot is reset. There should be 16 64x64 plots arranged in a 4x4 area near spawn.
Pros: Students can do their trial any time they wish instead of having to wait so long, and it streamlines the current process since the student does most of the work (the staff/foreman only need to be present and judge/question at the end).
Cons: This may be hard to code, but experienced coders can help. Cheating may be easier due to a possible lack of staff, but it is also reduced as other people may not help, and increased trial standards also decrease this issue. Students might end up needing help with World Edit and not get it, but to fix this, only have them be able to start/continue while staff/foreman (and possibly teacher/builder) are online.
Change #14: Increase the amount of staff, but ONLY choose qualified people. Choose people who are trustworthy and know how to run things.
Pros: There is more staff to run the server, and everything gets streamlined, plus ORE becomes more orderly (while still being fun). Things like coding for the server and maintenance go MUCH quicker instead of having just 1 or 2 people do it all (thanks tyler!)
Cons: More staff leads to the potential for more staff rank abuse, but this issue can be reduced by having only qualified people.
Change #15: Enable freebuild on school AND build (which should be combined in the near future).
Pros: Some visitors just want to get to building right away, and freebuild allows that. Then, after sticking around a bit, they might feel like applying. Plus, it adds something to do while you wait for your application to be accepted (which will have a shorter wait time with more staff and foremen).
Cons: There have been issues with permissions in the past, but correct coding can reduce the amount of issues.
Change #16: Combine school and build application forms into 1 form (select the box for which you are applying for, and have a question to ponder which you should apply for). Have the required elements on the left side with corresponding boxes to fill in to answer them. When they are completed, have staff go over them and click accept/deny, which automatically puts it in the correct spot AND automatically ranks them to the correct rank. Possibly separate applications from the forum depending on implementation needs. (JWN came up with this idea and wanted credit for it).
Pros: This streamlines the current, slow, messy process. Application forms are almost guaranteed to be filled out correctly, and it is easier for staff to manage.
Cons: It may be very difficult to code this in the website, but an alternative might be used to allow this kind of program.
Change #17: Expand plots, mainly on school (which should be combined with build soon).
Pros: While plot deletion helps, it does not totally solve, but plot expansion is the main fix for plots running out.
Cons: The world becomes bigger, thus increasing file size, but this is no large issue. However, the amount of chunks loaded increases, also increasing lag. Having a capable host will reduce lag.
RE: ORE GOVERNMENT - Xray_Doc - 08-06-2014
Something else that might be a good idea, a trial plot area. I know how hard it is for the admins to take an hour out of their day to watch a trial, so I suggest making a plot area where they build it and then contact an admin when they want it to be judged. If you're asking questions like how they built it and how it works, plagiarism shouldn't be a problem.
RE: ORE GOVERNMENT - Chibill - 08-06-2014
And using a plugin you can add a timer.
RE: ORE GOVERNMENT - redstonewarrior - 08-06-2014
These reforms, while necessary, are not the problem. The problem is that there are not enough people dealing with these problems. We need staff, not moderators. Tyler's going to explode.
RE: ORE GOVERNMENT - Legofreak - 08-06-2014
Well how do we get more staff? Can I be staff? I'm like the oldest person on this server(26). I wouldn't mind putting people in their place.
RE: ORE GOVERNMENT - PNWMan - 08-06-2014
Setting up these changes is a temporary fix, not an ongoing process. So, yes, the staff would have to be more active (or have temp staff or new staff) in order to set everything up, but once it's done, you wouldn't need as many staff. And i'll add a trial plot area to the list.
RE: ORE GOVERNMENT - PhysoniumI - 08-06-2014
NUMBER YOUR DAMN PROPOSITIONS /rage
CHANGE
Proposition 1: Cons
Using multiverse to merge servers would increase lag a SIGNIFICANT amount unless someone multithreads minecraft. Until then, it is not viable to merge whatsoever. Even then, there'd be bandwidth problems probably.
People need to learn what multiverse actually is; a pile of shit. (unless used for VERY small worlds, which is not the case) It effectively makes it so you're running two servers on one thread, fucking yourself in the ass performance wise.
DON'T PUT UP STUPID THINGS UNLESS YOU HAVE DONE IN DEPTH RESEARCH
/minirant
Proposition 2
I for one, would never leave build chat in my main client and MAYBE have a combined chat open on my alternate. Really though, most of the community would not have two open and would only ever be on builder chat. No student could ask someone to help teach them, and especially merging the servers would exacerbate the problem of no one being able to ask for help. Maybe have chat fully merged and allow TEMPORARY chat rooms on SCHOOL for builder+ to use to teach. Gives for an easier method than whispering people and would allow for a total of 3+ people teaching/being taught without spamming a global.
Proposition 7
Teaching multiple people at once is not at all possible. A. Everyone wants to learn different things. B. Everyone knows different things. C. People understand different things faster than others.
Teaching something technical like redstone without any pre-written materials is completely different from teaching in a classroom. You have to rely mainly off the student's intelligence to figure out what's happening. Some people can do that, while others can't. This proves to be problematic as everyone's in different spots, having to answer even more questions (even with a WPM around 80 that proves to be difficult with 1-2 people) would prove near-impossible and over all detrimental to the understanding of the students.
Proposition 10
There are NO cons. Bring back the old days!
(08-06-2014, 04:46 PM)redstonewarrior Wrote: These reforms, while necessary, are not the problem. The problem is that there are not enough people dealing with these problems. We need staff, not moderators. Tyler's going to explode.
YES
For the love of god, tyler is doing this all alone, or nearly so. He needs help, not more things to do.
Proposition to fix above:
Write code for whatever using available API (is the python thing that the server uses available?) and put it on github. Comment well, don't be an idiot and link it to tyler. He runs through it, checking it to make sure there's no opcode or anything (heuheuheu) and then it can be merged into the server.
A lot of staff I see are only on for an hour or so (well, full time staff, not mort) and then they vanish off into the abyss for the other 23 hours of the day, or like tyler are busy doing other stuff (I understand tyler being busy, as it's also important stuff). Staff need to be (a.) active and (b.) spread throughout the world for maximum time with admins on. (enough emphasis?) As I have no life, and I can't ever be bothered to build huge things (gah) I'd love to help.
EDIT: If any admins wanna censor me for vulgarity, have at it. Too lazy. Damn PNW threads piss me off >.>
RE: ORE GOVERNMENT - Xray_Doc - 08-06-2014
Reall? I've never had lag problems with multiverse, and I use a Fucking laptop
RE: ORE GOVERNMENT - PhysoniumI - 08-06-2014
(08-06-2014, 11:28 PM)Xray_Doc Wrote: Reall? I've never had lag problems with multiverse, and I use a Fucking laptop
>.> SERVER LAG
Were you by yourself on your own server or on a huge server? Did they use worldedit constantly in multiple worlds?
NOT ALL LAG IS CLIENT LAG (which would be more apparent on shit computers)
RE: ORE GOVERNMENT - Xray_Doc - 08-07-2014
Yeah I never got server lag, I ran the servee
Although there were only around 10 people... Fuck off
RE: ORE GOVERNMENT - PhysoniumI - 08-07-2014
Therefore your comment has been invalidated. Did they use worldedit or no? (further invalidation woo)
RE: ORE GOVERNMENT - PNWMan - 08-07-2014
(08-06-2014, 11:13 PM)PhysoniumI Wrote: Proposition 7
Teaching multiple people at once is not at all possible. A. Everyone wants to learn different things. B. Everyone knows different things. C. People understand different things faster than others.
Teaching something technical like redstone without any pre-written materials is completely different from teaching in a classroom. You have to rely mainly off the student's intelligence to figure out what's happening. Some people can do that, while others can't. This proves to be problematic as everyone's in different spots, having to answer even more questions (even with a WPM around 80 that proves to be difficult with 1-2 people) would prove near-impossible and over all detrimental to the understanding of the students.
This is quite untrue. I've had audiences of 4 or 5 people at once, and everything went very well.
A. Yes, everyone does want to learn different things, but the order in which you learn them stays the same for every student. If they want to learn something unique, they can have a more private lesson or join in on another mass lesson
B. Students will not be forced to join mass lessons. It would be absolutely unreasonable to force someone who hardly knows binary into an ALU lesson. They can choose to join whichever lesson they want, and multiple lessons covering multiple topics of multiple skill levels will be taught. The fact that everyone knows different things does not mean mass lessons fail. Think of it like real life school: Everyone knows different things, but there are different grades to compensate for that. Grades would be like a large lesson.
C. By creating a good curriculum, you can create material in a progressive and orderly way such that it is a good speed for everyone. If someone is struggling, they can ask for help after the lesson.
And relying on student's intelligence to know what's going on? How does that make mass lessons unsuccessful? That's just a measure of how well students are getting the material. It is no different than a lesson involving 1 or 2 students. Besides, some people do have prewritten materials to aid in their teaching; others who are good at memorizing can teach without them.
Qualified teachers are absolutely essential to this system. Practice and a greater population of teachers is also needed. And how do we get more teachers? Increase the popularity (after everything is sorted out, of course). How do teachers become qualified? By being taught in a good manner by others. While an audience of 1 or 2 people is more personalized, it just doesn't work out at all. There are just too many people to teach and not enough time/willpower to do it. Mass lessons, while slightly less individualized, make teaching more worthwhile and interesting for everyone, thus increasing how enjoyable teaching is and the amount of overall students learning.
It is very possible, even better, to teach a large audience. To reduce questions, teachers need to develop a good curriculum and learn from previous shortcomings/mistakes. This is not too hard to do, and teaching will become fun when you feel like you are helping lots of people. And to keep everything under control, a better environment (more orderly, friendly, and effective) and slightly stricter enforcement of things like spam and roughhousing will mitigate wild behavior.
RE: ORE GOVERNMENT - Nickster258 - 08-07-2014
Another ORE admin election and revamping of all the admins is definitely required.
(08-06-2014, 09:05 PM)RekcirBrickeR Wrote: Well how do we get more staff? Can I be staff? I'm like the oldest person on this server(26). I wouldn't mind putting people in their place.
It isn't so much how old an individual is as pure age has no relation to ones maturity. People who are more familiar with the system and the players may have a better time. If that is the case, I am running on two years membership.
RE: ORE GOVERNMENT - JWNJWN - 08-07-2014
I hope you realize if you merge the server and have separate worlds, the students will still do just what they do now, and bother builders, it'll just be easier for them, Prime example is rep-restofnamehere, who's constantly on build. Also most of the issues wouldn't be issues if there wasn't the weird staff situation where only like 2 or 3 actually ever do anything (That's stretching it a bit). Personally, I believe you need to talk to the inactive staff and see if they can increase their activity and actually do stuff that staff should do. (Bringing mods in could also help with this with apps and such meaning staff have to do less but that's a different discussion that has already been had)
RE: ORE GOVERNMENT - jxu - 08-07-2014
My comments
#1. I have seen this on some other servers. However I don't know how much server lag will actually come from this, because many more chunks will be loaded with build and school plots. Expect a fair bit
#2. Combined chat is not necessary, just mv to the world. Lessons could be able to fit within school chat.
#3. Yes
#4. This is not easy to achieve. Prop's and newo's videos cover lots of material already though. The only issue would be the quality of effectiveness of these videos
#5. Not sure if necessary
#6. I don't think plot resetting is any problem. In terms of griefing, if someone can grief a small area, they can grief a big area too. I thought our plot system was specifically designed to be extensible so large amounts of new plots could be added. Except for special cases, no one should be allowed to remove something someone else has built.
#7. Definitely need to test it out. Effectiveness is unknown
#8. If this is an issue is debatable
#9. Yes
#10. Yes
#11. Yes
#12. Yes
#13. A staff member really should be present for trials. More staff needs to be online though
Overall good suggestions. They seem more like improvements than fixes though
RE: ORE GOVERNMENT - AFtExploision - 08-07-2014
Phy, go to the programming section of the forums. There is a link to the github for OREUtilsV2.
RE: ORE GOVERNMENT - Xray_Doc - 08-07-2014
(08-07-2014, 12:23 AM)PhysoniumI Wrote: Therefore your comment has been invalidated. Did they use worldedit or no? (further invalidation woo)
Oh no I used giant we's all the time
RE: ORE GOVERNMENT - Apuly - 08-07-2014
3: The reason that [Foreman] was removed was because foreman were doing stuff that they were not supposed to do (chuck was maintaining the server). It's hard to prevent that from happening again, and I think the best thing is to just keep it the way it is, but get some more active staff members.
6: I don't really like the idea of the 6 month offline plot reset. Some of the better redstoners have had periods where they weren't online for about 6 months (take proper). I think a better way of looking if a plot is reset is how much time they have spend in the community, and then look at how long they've been offline. A bit more manual process, but I think it'll work better than just the 6 month offline period
7: There's nothing stopping anyone from teaching 5 people at once, as long as you're willing to do so. The teachers are free to teach any number of people at once.
10: I like the [Member] rank. Makes it feel like I'm actually a part of something, instead of one of the people in a cluster of redstoners.
12: I feel like the plot protection should be kept in place. We already have cases where builders are worldediting other peoples plots. If we were to give them build rights on student plots, I feel like it would get worse than it already is.
RE: ORE GOVERNMENT - JWNJWN - 08-07-2014
Pauly, builders don't even need build permission to WE school plots, right now that can do that as they wish. Also, it isn't difficult to keep mods from not doing what they should by just not giving them the access to the commands or not selecting certain ones out and giving them ssh access for example. If they do try do more than what their rank is meant to the admins can decide on how severe it was and if they should be demoted. It isn't that difficult.
RE: ORE GOVERNMENT - PNWMan - 08-07-2014
The way I see it, with changes influencing one another:
JWN: A larger school community + quality large lessons = busier and short-lived (transitioning to [Builder]. Increase ACTIVE staff population, and add [Foreman].
Random Symbols Name:
1. Still combine them with physical worlds, but possibly have a more powerful host. If servers can be filled up with thousands of noobs doing nooby things, we (possibly not with the current host, but a new one) could easily handle 1-2 hundred on at a time. And to help with the World Edit situation, possibly have a program thatonly allows one large World Edit at a time (large being a set amount of changed blocks, say 100,000). This restriction would not get in the way of people; it would actually be less in the way than crashing the server. Also, it wouldn't be a bad idea to just entirely drop excessively large World Edits (5,000,000 blocks, maybe).
2. Due to some ranting about how terrible Multiverse and how much lag it causes *couphyscough*, MV is not a good option. We must combine the worlds together physically, in some way, either interlaced plots or a separate school area. The decision between these comes down to the poll on the Merging Build and School thread; not enough people have voted in order for me to say (go vote for which plot system you like!). As far as chat goes, it really depends on how many people are at school for the Lessons chat rooms. Those would be hard to code, and could confuse people. However, popularizing the server adds more people, and chat might get spammy (lessons tend to have a high use of chat).
4. Honestly, i was thinking a database of non-video material, with maybe an optional video if available. Text/pictures are much much easier to edit and improve than a video. I might as well start a few tutorials in there at some time (once you get going it should be fine).
5. Visitors are always asking what to do, and it annoys people to the grave. If they had a book with them that says what to do, the amount of annoying visitors would decrease.
6. (With paul's idea)(Changed the change) Ok, we have a implement the program that shows the total amount of time online, and if, say, after 6 months AND under x hours (10 might be good) of total playing time, their plot is reset. Extending will be needed, but we can't just extend into infinity and have tons of old, empty but claimed plots laying around. Now, the total amount of time online database may have been deleted, so time offline may have to be looked up and calculated, and as far as total time online, a plot "judge" might be used.
7. Right now, teaching consists mostly of small lessons, and I can tell you with confidence that the amount of teaching has decreased significantly. It's just too hard to teach one or two students at a time, and it makes teaching not feel worthwhile. Mass lessons are required in order for teaching to contine, and it will also bring about more enjoyability in teaching and learning.
13. I do agree that we need more staff, and I do see a pitfall where, for example, a student does his trial with no one present, needs World Edit help, doesn't get it so they have to do it manualy. Then, he can't complete it and he fails, when if he would have had that help, he would have passed. So possibly, have them only be able to start/continue while a staff/foreman (and possibly builder, since they can World Edit too) is online. Also, this process just streamlines the current process so staff doesn't have to do as much, they only have to be present and judge/question at the end. So I will add only being able to start/contine while staff/foreman is online to the change.
Paul:
3. Foremen have limited privileges, yet not so limited they can't do their job. Only promote qualified people.
6. (Answered above)
7. We NEED mass lessons in order for teaching to continue. Not saying every lesson has to be large, but we do need a good amount of them.
10. The name of your rank does not define who you are, but rather, your personality and ingenuity define you. I think we can all attest to knowing some members who stand out more than others, even if they both have the same activity.
12. If builders are World Editing on other people's plots (and actually griefing, not just something harmless then /undo), then those people need to be punished. A larger staff force and slightly stricter enforcement of the rules will mitigate this issue drastically.
RE: ORE GOVERNMENT - JWNJWN - 08-07-2014
You realize the current plot system is designed so it is easily expandable, and what is wrong with having plots that haven't been used for a while? Sure they're taking up space but as long as they actually have stuff on them they don't look bad, they look like someone has worked on it. If it is empty and the person has been inactive, sure delete it but otherwise there is no need to.
RE: ORE GOVERNMENT - PNWMan - 08-07-2014
I've added plot expansion to the list
RE: ORE GOVERNMENT - Apuly - 08-07-2014
I know that your personality is what makes you stand out as a member. But what I like about this server is the community, and I feel like the member rank is a lot more fitting to a community than a builder rank, thus I don't want that to change.
Also, the Foreman rank wasn't removed because of abuse, but because Foreman were doing what admins were supposed to be doing. Because of this, the admins decided to merge the admin and Foreman rank into the staff rank, with all staff having as much power as the other, and could decide for themselves how much of their power they wanted to use.
Also, something about the post in general.
You have a pro and a con, which I find good, but then you proceed to give counter argument in the con. Although understandable, it kinda removes the entire need for having the cons there.
I feel like it would be more fair if you were to list all ideas, then add a response to it describing your thoughts and concerns on each individual point.
RE: ORE GOVERNMENT - PNWMan - 08-08-2014
I would like to apologize to tyler (and all other staff members) for the terrible things I said at the start. More specifically... "ORE sucks. I think we all can admit that it is sloppily run and is quite doomed to fail." Considering tyler has been doing about 85% of the running, this statement implied tyler was sloppy, sucky, and a failiure. But in contrast, it is because of him that this server is running smoothly. He helped transfer hosts for school. He helped immensely during and after the large outage. And he's done countless other things to help out, including accepting applications and whatnot.
This isn't limited to just tyler (although he's the main contributor, along with mort in some aspects), newo and some others have also been active and have helped very much in keeping ORE running generally smooth. The REAL problem is the LACK of staff to help out. We need more qualified staff to help with this kind of stuff, tyler (and sometimes mort) cannot do it on their own.
Now, when I wrote that bad passage at the start of the thread, I started with "ORE sucks" as an attention grabber, however, I meant it as an overly exhaggerated phrase for "ORE is in trouble." As far as the sloppily run and doomed to fail part, I was mainly focusing on some of the individual aspects that were highlighted in the changes, most of which are on the backburner of the to-do list. Also, I was talking about the lack of staff being a bad feature. If ORE keeps up the huge backflow of visitors and does nothing about the school plot shortage (more like complete lack of), then ORE will certainly fail over time, however, I am fully confident that the staff (as long as we add some more active members to that rank) will be able to handle this issue, and once the serious things are taken care of, THEN we can focus on some of the changes here.
Once again, I am sorry for the destructive things I said, and I have reworded it to convey what I really meant to say. I have learned two lessons: Watch how you word things, and keep the people in mind.
Paul:
Honestly, I chose to synchronize the member/builder rank by selection the builder rank because of 1 reason: If it says [Member] on school, you are not really a member of school. Honestly, it doesn't matter whether we choose [Member] or [Builder], as long as we combine them into 1 rank on both build and school.
Right now, I think most of us agree that ORE needs some work done, and that work should be done by staff. However, there are still trials to do, applications to review, and visitors to help, which should be given to Foremen at the moment.
As far as reformatting my lengthy thread, I think not, as thoughts and concerns are highlighted in all 3 categories of each change.
RE: ORE GOVERNMENT - tokumei - 08-08-2014
FYI, I'm in the process of designing a concept for a redstone server. Not one that is focused solely on computer engineering, but one that tries to encourage all aspects. It has a similar structure to ORE, but at the same time it combines the purpose of the build server and the school servers - it is the members' responsibility as a whole to teach the students, while at the same time advancing redstone knowledge together. Currently, I'm busy developing the plugins needed so later I can host a server to see how this idea turns out.
I'm in no way intending to be a "traitor" to ORE, but I simply have an idea that I want to test. I will still be an active member/staff here, and always will be unto the end.
RE: ORE GOVERNMENT - jxu - 08-09-2014
(08-08-2014, 05:20 PM)DJ8X Wrote: I'm
(08-08-2014, 05:20 PM)DJ8X Wrote: a "traitor"
RE: ORE GOVERNMENT - Cutlassw30 - 08-09-2014
Fuck the police coming straight from the underground.
RE: ORE GOVERNMENT - Konstacon - 08-10-2014
tl;dr