+- Forums - Open Redstone Engineers (https://forum.openredstone.org)
+-- Forum: ORE General (https://forum.openredstone.org/forum-39.html)
+--- Forum: Build Discussion (https://forum.openredstone.org/forum-50.html)
+--- Thread: ORE GOVERNMENT (/thread-4282.html)
ORE GOVERNMENT - PNWMan - 08-06-2014
Let's face it: ORE is in trouble. I think we all can admit that it is sloppily run and is quite doomed to fail in the far future if the current way of running things continues. By this, I mean that the active staff force is extremely small, such that only 1 or 2 people do anything (thanks tyler!). Also, some key aspects could be improved drastically, and some aspects are so terrible (like school running out of plots or the giant backup of visitors) that ORE is doomed, in a way, currently. It is sloppily run as there are hardly enough staff to handle it all, and even though the hard work those few staff put in helps greatly, it's just too much for them with having to code, accept visitor apps, help visitors, do trials... etc. The staff force is much to small and key aspects are either faulty or inefficient, thus causing the imminent doom of ORE in the distant future.
These problems are due to the way the ORE government is set up. Many threads, posts, and replies have been made to address this issue, and I felt it needed to be combined into one thread: This one. This thread combines the ideas of many people (some subjects go with what the majority of people favor), as well as some of my own ideas. I will have a chart that lists the changes that need to be made in order for ORE to succeed, as well as the pros and cons for each change. I may add/change/remove these changes.
Change #1: Combine build and school with the same physical map, possibly with a new host if lag issues arise.
Pros: Combined physical worlds allows for greater student success. The need to switch back and forth between servers is eliminated. The application and rank transfer processes become much easier, smoother, and more efficient. Physical combined worlds has less lag than multiverse.
Cons: Combining worlds may increase lag by a slight amount, and builders may be more annoyed by students. A world with physical combined student and builder plots may be difficult to create, and students/visitors may be able to annoy builders. However, annoyance can be reduced greatly by different chats and slightly stricter enforcement of rules.
Change #2: Have 4 separate chats, of which you can be in multiple: Build, Combined, School, and multiple Lessons chat. Visitors, guests, and students can only join Combined, School, and Lessons chat, while anyone else can join any chat. For the lessons, you create your own chat room of which you teach the audience, and remove the chat room when finished. Depending on the amount of people on school, add or not add the Lessons chat.
Pros: Quiet builders can have privacy, but other builders can join either chat if they wish. School and build are now combined permanently by combined chat, and quiet students can be to themselves. Build and school are more interconnected, but in a way such that most everyone is happy. Lessons do not annoy other people.
Cons: The amount of builders/teachers willing to help students might decrease a small amount, but this can be mitigated by making teaching more enjoyable. Lessons chat might be confusing, but making a simple program (or just not making it, depending on population size) will help.
Change #3: Add the [Foreman] rank as a staff assistant, and choose qualified people.
Pros: Applications, trials, and limited ranks will be reviewed/done/changed much quicker and more frequently.
Cons: Adding a rank divides the community up ever so slightly more, but this is no large issue. Also, this rank was removed in the past due to abuse, however, abuse can be reduced by choosing qualified people.
Change #4: Have a large lesson database on the forums. Make sure the bulk of the lessons is text and pictures, with maybe a video as a supplement.
Pros: These lessons will be available to students when teachers/builders are not, and can increase accurate learning and student productivity rates, as well as decrease the amount of time someone is a student. Confusing subjects can be clarified without the need of a person. Text and pictures can be edited and improved.
Cons: Teachers/builders may direct students to these lessons instead of teaching, which may make these lessons the new "school." However, making teaching more enjoyable will help to reduce the amount of redirects to the lessons. Also, it may be difficult to have such a large database, but with enough people on the project, it is possible.
Change #5: Have the infamous "signs at spawn" be kept at spawn, as well as in a written book (that visitors are able to pick up (visitors picking up items is not a major issue at all)).
Pros: Visitors can refer to the book whenever they need help, and it's something they can carry with them. They wouldn't have to annoy other people asking what to do.
Cons: It may be hard to implement, but good coding will help this. Also, a combined spawn may help.
Change #6: Have plots be reset with a new added command ONLY for use by staff, then unclaimed after a user has been offline for more than six months AND the user has been online a total amount of 10 hours or less. Use a python program to detect old plots and total time online.
Pros: New plots open up, and old junk can be removed.
Cons: The player offline time log has been reset in the recent outage, so it may not take effect until about 6 months from now (assuming there isn't another outage, and that the log isn't still intact). Plus, deleting another persons plot may have some small controversy. However, there are plenty of build plots, and combining school will open up new ones, so everything should be fine 6 months from now, and as far as controversy goes, if you haven't been on for 6 months and have only been on a total of 10 hours, you probably won't care about your stuff.
Change #7: Host more mass lessons instead of small, short, 1-2 person audience lessons.
Pros: These mass lessons will increase teacher confidence, the feeling that teaching is worthwhile, and will help students learn much more in a shorter amount of time. Teaching 1-2 students at a time is time consuming and it doesn't feel worthwhile, thus teaching stops. Mass lessons are the key for teaching to continue. The online tutorial database
Cons: Large lessons may be hard for some teachers to teach, and large audiences can be hard to control. However, these can be mostly fixed by having more qualified teachers and stricter enforcement of rules. While mass lessons are not as personalized, by teaching high quality material the amount of confusion can be reduced, thus reducing how much attention individuals need.
Change #8: Have a stricter enforcement of the rules, and harsher punishment, however, not so strict that ORE becomes boring or seemingly "run by parents."
Pros: This will greatly reduce the amount of spam and malevolent nonsense that comes with greater popularity, and will allow mass lessons to be successful. This will rid ORE of undesirable people.
Cons: The freedom of ORE may be slightly jeopardized, and some may leave as they view it as boring and strict. These issues can be helped by only issuing punishment when offenses are made, and by limiting the strictness (possibly with more influence on students. This gives them something to look forward to (more freedom with builder rank) and filters out undesirable people right at the start).
Change #9: Have better advertising campaigns on multiple websites using multiple ways, without seeming annoying and stupid.
Pros: In order for mass lessons and teaching to feel worthwhile and valuable, the school has to have a large community. Plus, it increases computational redstone awareness within the Minecraft community.
Cons: Increasing popularity means more visitors and students, which could mean trouble and annoyance. But using some of the changes above, annoyance can be reduced, and smoothness can be increased.
Change #10: Turn the [Member] rank to [Builder].
Pros: School and build will have much more integrated ranks, as having two ranks for the same thing is redundant. Also, [Builder] more accurately represents the privileges than simply [Member]
Cons: Changing the long lived [Member] rank may be hard for some people, but people can get used to change after a bit. Some may feel it makes them "part of the crowd," but it is not your rank that determines that, it is your personality.
Change #11: No matter what method of combining build and school is employed, have a shared spawn with boards and guide book that take into account someone may join either school or build (not biased to them joining just one).
Pros: This makes the application process much easier, and reduces the amount of double applications (one app for build, then one for school, or vise versa).
Cons: The amount of information on the boards and in the book will increase and possibly overwhelm the visitor, but this can be mitigated by dividing it up into sections (with a presection that directs the visitor to either one based on a prompted personal examination of redstone skills/abilities).
Change #12: Give teachers/builders full permissions on the school.
Pros: Teachers will be able to help students without asking for permission, and they can help with projects on people's plots even if it is not their plot.
Cons: More permissions could result in grief, but since they are given full trust on build, they should be on school as well. Slightly stricter enforcement of the rules can reduce builder/teacher grief.[/color]
Change #13: Have a trial plot area where students can build their trial build. Once they claim the plot, they are given the rank [Testificate]. Other students/visitors are not allowed to build on the plot. They are timed for an hour (if they leave in the middle it does not count that time) and after the hour has passed, they cannot build on that plot anymore. They can only start/continue the trial while staff, foreman, and possibly teachers and builders (since they have World Edit) are online. Then, they can ask staff at a later time to judge/question it, and afterwards the plot is reset. There should be 16 64x64 plots arranged in a 4x4 area near spawn.
Pros: Students can do their trial any time they wish instead of having to wait so long, and it streamlines the current process since the student does most of the work (the staff/foreman only need to be present and judge/question at the end).
Cons: This may be hard to code, but experienced coders can help. Cheating may be easier due to a possible lack of staff, but it is also reduced as other people may not help, and increased trial standards also decrease this issue. Students might end up needing help with World Edit and not get it, but to fix this, only have them be able to start/continue while staff/foreman (and possibly teacher/builder) are online.
Change #14: Increase the amount of staff, but ONLY choose qualified people. Choose people who are trustworthy and know how to run things.
Pros: There is more staff to run the server, and everything gets streamlined, plus ORE becomes more orderly (while still being fun). Things like coding for the server and maintenance go MUCH quicker instead of having just 1 or 2 people do it all (thanks tyler!)
Cons: More staff leads to the potential for more staff rank abuse, but this issue can be reduced by having only qualified people.
Change #15: Enable freebuild on school AND build (which should be combined in the near future).
Pros: Some visitors just want to get to building right away, and freebuild allows that. Then, after sticking around a bit, they might feel like applying. Plus, it adds something to do while you wait for your application to be accepted (which will have a shorter wait time with more staff and foremen).
Cons: There have been issues with permissions in the past, but correct coding can reduce the amount of issues.
Change #16: Combine school and build application forms into 1 form (select the box for which you are applying for, and have a question to ponder which you should apply for). Have the required elements on the left side with corresponding boxes to fill in to answer them. When they are completed, have staff go over them and click accept/deny, which automatically puts it in the correct spot AND automatically ranks them to the correct rank. Possibly separate applications from the forum depending on implementation needs. (JWN came up with this idea and wanted credit for it).
Pros: This streamlines the current, slow, messy process. Application forms are almost guaranteed to be filled out correctly, and it is easier for staff to manage.
Cons: It may be very difficult to code this in the website, but an alternative might be used to allow this kind of program.
Change #17: Expand plots, mainly on school (which should be combined with build soon).
Pros: While plot deletion helps, it does not totally solve, but plot expansion is the main fix for plots running out.
Cons: The world becomes bigger, thus increasing file size, but this is no large issue. However, the amount of chunks loaded increases, also increasing lag. Having a capable host will reduce lag.
RE: ORE GOVERNMENT - Xray_Doc - 08-06-2014
Something else that might be a good idea, a trial plot area. I know how hard it is for the admins to take an hour out of their day to watch a trial, so I suggest making a plot area where they build it and then contact an admin when they want it to be judged. If you're asking questions like how they built it and how it works, plagiarism shouldn't be a problem.
RE: ORE GOVERNMENT - Chibill - 08-06-2014
And using a plugin you can add a timer.
RE: ORE GOVERNMENT - redstonewarrior - 08-06-2014
These reforms, while necessary, are not the problem. The problem is that there are not enough people dealing with these problems. We need staff, not moderators. Tyler's going to explode.
RE: ORE GOVERNMENT - Legofreak - 08-06-2014
Well how do we get more staff? Can I be staff? I'm like the oldest person on this server(26). I wouldn't mind putting people in their place.
RE: ORE GOVERNMENT - PNWMan - 08-06-2014
Setting up these changes is a temporary fix, not an ongoing process. So, yes, the staff would have to be more active (or have temp staff or new staff) in order to set everything up, but once it's done, you wouldn't need as many staff. And i'll add a trial plot area to the list.
RE: ORE GOVERNMENT - PhysoniumI - 08-06-2014
NUMBER YOUR DAMN PROPOSITIONS /rage
CHANGE
Proposition 1: Cons
Using multiverse to merge servers would increase lag a SIGNIFICANT amount unless someone multithreads minecraft. Until then, it is not viable to merge whatsoever. Even then, there'd be bandwidth problems probably.
People need to learn what multiverse actually is; a pile of shit. (unless used for VERY small worlds, which is not the case) It effectively makes it so you're running two servers on one thread, fucking yourself in the ass performance wise.
DON'T PUT UP STUPID THINGS UNLESS YOU HAVE DONE IN DEPTH RESEARCH
/minirant
Proposition 2
I for one, would never leave build chat in my main client and MAYBE have a combined chat open on my alternate. Really though, most of the community would not have two open and would only ever be on builder chat. No student could ask someone to help teach them, and especially merging the servers would exacerbate the problem of no one being able to ask for help. Maybe have chat fully merged and allow TEMPORARY chat rooms on SCHOOL for builder+ to use to teach. Gives for an easier method than whispering people and would allow for a total of 3+ people teaching/being taught without spamming a global.
Proposition 7
Teaching multiple people at once is not at all possible. A. Everyone wants to learn different things. B. Everyone knows different things. C. People understand different things faster than others.
Teaching something technical like redstone without any pre-written materials is completely different from teaching in a classroom. You have to rely mainly off the student's intelligence to figure out what's happening. Some people can do that, while others can't. This proves to be problematic as everyone's in different spots, having to answer even more questions (even with a WPM around 80 that proves to be difficult with 1-2 people) would prove near-impossible and over all detrimental to the understanding of the students.
Proposition 10
There are NO cons. Bring back the old days!
(08-06-2014, 04:46 PM)redstonewarrior Wrote: These reforms, while necessary, are not the problem. The problem is that there are not enough people dealing with these problems. We need staff, not moderators. Tyler's going to explode.
YES
For the love of god, tyler is doing this all alone, or nearly so. He needs help, not more things to do.
Proposition to fix above:
Write code for whatever using available API (is the python thing that the server uses available?) and put it on github. Comment well, don't be an idiot and link it to tyler. He runs through it, checking it to make sure there's no opcode or anything (heuheuheu) and then it can be merged into the server.
A lot of staff I see are only on for an hour or so (well, full time staff, not mort) and then they vanish off into the abyss for the other 23 hours of the day, or like tyler are busy doing other stuff (I understand tyler being busy, as it's also important stuff). Staff need to be (a.) active and (b.) spread throughout the world for maximum time with admins on. (enough emphasis?) As I have no life, and I can't ever be bothered to build huge things (gah) I'd love to help.
EDIT: If any admins wanna censor me for vulgarity, have at it. Too lazy. Damn PNW threads piss me off >.>
RE: ORE GOVERNMENT - Xray_Doc - 08-06-2014
Reall? I've never had lag problems with multiverse, and I use a Fucking laptop
RE: ORE GOVERNMENT - PhysoniumI - 08-06-2014
(08-06-2014, 11:28 PM)Xray_Doc Wrote: Reall? I've never had lag problems with multiverse, and I use a Fucking laptop
>.> SERVER LAG
Were you by yourself on your own server or on a huge server? Did they use worldedit constantly in multiple worlds?
NOT ALL LAG IS CLIENT LAG (which would be more apparent on shit computers)
RE: ORE GOVERNMENT - Xray_Doc - 08-07-2014
Yeah I never got server lag, I ran the servee
Although there were only around 10 people... Fuck off